Monday, December 29, 2008

Non Secular Party

The children on our local public schools could not have a Christmas party this year. They could have a "Holiday Party" as long and there was no secular references. The school district stated that they were trying to avoid all the legal hassles that may arise from a "Christmas Party" do to discrimination lawsuits and suits based on the seperation of church and state. The superintendent also stated that he could just see the lawyers salivating hoping that he would allow the Chorale to sing "Silent Night". "The schools budget is tight and their is not room for more frivoulous lawsuits."

I think I know why attorneys are so fierce in their interpetation of the seperation of church and state.The last thing that they want is an outside reference to what is moral. Further, the Bible seems to call “a spade a spade”.

Luke 11:46 King James

“And he said, Woe unto you also, ye lawyers! for ye lade men with burdens grievous to be borne, and ye yourselves touch not the burdens with one of your fingers.”

Luke 11:52 King James

“Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.”

So, what the schools teach is determined by lawsuits, what the children do is regulated by lawsuits and what do the children learn? To file lawsuits.


SeaSpray said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
SeaSpray said...

(Sorry this ended up being so long but this kind of thing always ends up being a soap box topic for me)

This topic makes me crazy Throckmorton...absolutely crazy. I guess I am not all that PC because I still say Merry Christmas.

I used to write Merry xmas and I used to say Happy Holidays, but when I realized they were sanitizing Christmas...I rebelled.

I saw the evolution of removing Christmas from the school Christmas programs.

Well first of all...most of us grew up with "Christmas" school programs, Merry Christmas was openly said without shame or guilt, Christmas trees were sold and Christmas carols were song..even the religious ones.

I loved when Jimmy Stewart at the end of "It's a Wonderful Life" went running through Bedford Falls, with the snow falling shouting at the top of his lungs "MERRY CHRISTMAS! :)

I don't recall anything about Christmas being offensive. Was it?

When older son started school -1986 it was still a "Christmas" program with a mixture of secular and religious songs...the usual stuff. But 8 years later-1994, younger son's program was the winter holiday program or something like that. No mention of Christmas. Only secular songs sung - nothing religious. They also included the Jewish dradle song and I don't recall about Kwanza.

I have no problem with inclusive.

I understand that times change. But to eradicate something that has been with this country since the settlers brought their customs here is just wrong... in my opinion.

And it is a Christmas party before Christmas vacation. And employers give us "Christmas" off..ha! Unless you work in a hospital!

What happened? When did the PC police start turning things upside down?

I actually didn't pay much attention until a few years ago...i heard that certain stores were no longer selling Christmas trees but only holiday trees. !!!??? What?

Those stores do not want my Christmas money either I suppose!

I will say Happy holidays because you are including all the holidays but darn... to be afraid to say Merry Christmas.. uh uh.. I say it.

And you know what...if someone wished me Happy hannukkah or kwanza...I would not get mad. I would see that they were happy and wishing me well and I would say thank you and wish them the same.

WHAT is wrong with people Throckmorton that they have to sue for everything? I HATE it! They are RUINING society! They are ruining everything good!

I could list stories of towns removing the decorations they used for years so they could be politically correct!

I never thought about the lawsuits with the schools but of course you are right.

And I remember in the 80s in schools around here...they started with kids couldn't wear crosses, or bring Bibles to school. Yet they could wear satanic things or anything they chose...just not Christian symbols. Even now...coaches get in trouble for praying with a team that WANTS to pray with them. They can pray separately on school grounds but the coach can't pray with them! That is total BS!

Oh my God...were we still in America back then.

I told you about this Messianic Jewish dynamo of a lawyer, Jay Sekulow who founded the ACLJ where they take on religious cases and he has argued before the Supreme court many times.

I may have my facts wrong... but I believe he is responsible for making sure students do have a right to bring their Bibles to school and even have a Bible study club in the school. Christians were the only ones that were banished from being allowed to practice their faith on school grounds.

It was ironic too considering that this country began with people looking to escape religious persecution, etc. and indeed practiced their faiths. Thomas Jefferson was a "theist" I believe and so not devout as Washington and Lincoln, etc. If you read Washington's memoires, you'll see that he invoked God's help often and was a man of great faith. We celebrate Thanksgiving and give thanks to God... that was the original premise. God is mentioned in places in government. In court you swear on a Bible. Congress opens with prayer. The president elect Obama will be using Lincoln's Bible to be sworn in as our next president of the United States.

I know I have digressed from your topic regarding Christmas programs.

But it ties in with the movement to remove God from everything.

How long before it is not PC to swear on the Bible because it's not the Koran or some other book?

And the people have been silent... most of them. Little by little there are people out there trying to erode our freedoms that have been with this country since the beginning. husband's ancestors were persecuted in France. They were French Huguenots who left France because of religious persecution and fled to the Netherlands and then here. His family came to this country in the 1600s..3 brothers that settled in different states.

I have to say that I have read the Bible a gazillion times over the years and never picked up that there were lawyers back then. I guess I just wasn't focused on that. I find that fascinating!

And the pharisees were all about following the letter of the law.

I grew up with KJV and it is poetic but not as accurate with the Greek and Hebrew translations. I tend to use the modern translations like NIV or sometimes even the living although the paraphrasing annoys me sometimes. I haven't read my Bible in forever but this post is causing me to want to pull it out and read through it. I am intrigued about the lawyers. Funny how you can read things and still not see all that is there.

You said"So, what the schools teach is determined by lawsuits, what the children do is regulated by lawsuits and what do the children learn? To file lawsuits." and that is so true, frustrating and sad.

If I have learned anything from reading medblogs... it is that potential lawsuits are everywhere and that grieves really does.

SeaSpray said...

Just one more thing Throckmorton... I admit I can get pretty passionate about certain things so please delete if this is offensive in anyway. The services for one of my doctors is today and I now realize I have channeled my energy here.

If interested, check out Jackie's youtube. It feels GOOD to hear him say Merry Christmas so vigorously and to defend it!

"This is a partial transcript of "The Big Story With John Gibson," December 1, 2005, that has been edited for clarity.

DAVID ASMAN, GUEST HOST: A newly formed group is battling against the war on Christmas. Its founder and members, they are not gentiles. They are Jews. The group is called Jews Against Anti-Christian Defamation, and they held a press conference Thursday in Washington.

Joining us via phone call is comedian Jackie Mason, who is a member of the group. He joins us now on the phone.

Jackie, what's a nice Jewish boy like you doing with a group like this?

JACKIE MASON, JEWS AGAINST ANTI-CHRISTIAN DEFAMATION: Well, not only am I a member, I'm a founding father of this organization, because I have never seen anything so offensive to me. I can't believe this. All my life, I was always worried about Christians persecuting Jews. And who knew that Christians would start persecuting Christians? And who knew it would take the Jews to defend the Christians from each other?

"We have only 1.5 percent of America's population and the Christians have to run to us for help to protect them from other Christians.

ASMAN: Now, there are Jews with the Anti-Defamation League and everything who say there is too much emphasis on Christmas and we should take the word Christ out of Christmas and so forth. What do you tell them?

MASON: First of all, the amount of Jews who are saying this kind of a thing can't even be found. You would have to hire the CIA to find a Jew who is disturbed or offended by anything representing the word Christmas. Jews are thrilled and delighted to celebrate Christmas because, you know, we don't see it as a threat. There is no normal Jew in America, I can't find one, bang on every door of every Jewish house in America. If you find more, if you would find more than six Jews with this complex, that they are disturbed by Christianity or by the word "Merry Christmas." Jews love the idea of "Merry Christmas" because not only is it celebrating brotherhood and friendship and love and the extension of happiness to everybody in the world — how could you be offended by that?

Pornography is allowed in this country because freedom of speech protects it. Rappers are singing songs about killing everybody in the streets, and it's protected. But if, God forbid, you say "Merry Christmas," "Ho, ho, ho," a whole fight breaks out. Love is the only thing that they hate. Hate is protected. Love is obnoxious to them. How nuts could you get? If a store is selling rap music, it's protected. But if that same store hung up a sign that said "Merry Christmas," they would be in all kinds of trouble.

ASMAN: Oh, well, wait a minute. We've got to interrupt Jackie Mason for President Bush, who is about to do the lighting. He is going to say a few words before he lights up the Christmas tree. Let's listen to the president, and then we'll get to Jackie.

And the president and the first lady are now leaving. Jackie Mason, were you able to see? There is the tree. What do you think of it? Are you ready to call it a Christmas tree or a holiday tree?

MASON: I think anybody who sees it and decides you must call it a holiday tree should be put in a sanitarium. Because what are they going to do? Are they going to do this to all the religions now? Are you going to say a Jew is not allowed to say "Happy Passover," you have to say happy, hello, I can't remember what I am now? What if it's Purim and what — we have any kind of a holiday? What if you fast on Yom Kippur, should we have to say we're fasting on a day we don't know about?"

I have also heard him mention that after what the Jews went through during WWII, he doesn't want to see anyone persecuted. he also said that if he goes to another country that doesn't celebrate what he believes...he is not offended by what they celebrate and he does not expect them to change their laws and celebrations to accommodate HIS beliefs.

And he mentioned that Christmas is the largest retail time of the year and merchants from all faiths benefit.

Okay..very last thing. I had a personal "Merry Christmas" experience a couple of years ago.

I had made some Christmas purchases at our local Hallmark store that I have shopped in since high school. As I left I said Merry Christmas to the 2 sales reps at the register. No one else was in the store as it was closing. Nothing. Not even a happy holidays. I thought maybe they didn't hear me and so I repeated it more loudly. Nothing. No response whatsoever.

I felt embarrassed. then I worried about offending them. Then I got mad because i was buying "Christmas" items in their store! I think I even posted on it... at some point I did.

As fate would have it... I ran into the owner Christmas week in the parking lot. I have known him since we first got married because he was our pharmacist in a local pharmacy near us. (btw-he got out of the business because he didn't feel it was profitable the way insurance companies were setting up pharmacy plans, etc and so went gravitated to his stores instead)He is Jewish. And let me tell you... he did very well in his stores and the pharmacy selling for "Christmas"! He ALWAYS and with a big smile wished me a "Merry Christmas!" and I equally enthusiastic wished him a "Happy Hannukka!"

So after our usual holiday greeting to each other...I politely asked him if he had instructed his employees to not say 'Merry Christmas" back to a customer who says it?

A look of concern came over his face and he said "No... absolutely NOT!" I told him what happened and that I know stores are doing the Happy Holidays thing but these women didn't respond at all. Then I told him about the store chain that had decided to rename their Christmas trees holiday trees and in the same breath said "Any store that doesn't want to acknowledge Christmas...doesn't want my Christmas money."

He apologized for their behavior and said he would talk with them and went on about how they always acknowledge Christmas there. They DO say Merry Christmas there now. They always did..except for that year.

And people don't HAVE to believe as I do. I am okay with happy long as it isn't said because people are afraid to say what they want to say.

Even in my urologist's office a couple of weeks ago as I was walking into the clinic side I wished this older couple a "Merry Christmas! The man beamed a "Merry Christmas" back(or he was still amused at my Lucy antics of me trying to recover everything I was juggling from falling when I was walking to sit across from them earlier and it was apparent I was his comedic relief), but the lady she had a check in her spirit (PC police?) but then smiled and said it back? I... I for a split second wondered if I offended her but I really think she was having a PC moment because ever since the PC police activated in the 90s...people are second guessing themselves. That's my take anyway.

Admittedly...I have felt concern at offending someone but at the same time it makes me mad... because it never used to be like that. I love the way Jackie says Merry Christmas in the video!

And word of mouth (WOM) is important for any business dependent upon customers... maybe the most important.

And what about the ER doc who went to court because he was offended that "under God" was in the Pledge of Allegiance and didn't the 9th circuit courts go along with him? Wouldn't that doctor contribute more to society by helping sick poor people or some other organization that would benefit from his medical skills? And people want "In God we trust" off our coins, schools and a federal building had to remove the 10 commandments from being displayed. In a world where so much violence goes the 10 commandments really such a bad thing? "Thou shalt not kill, steal, lie, etc."?

You have lawyers that come through here. I am there something I am not understanding about these things? Am I and people that would be in agreement with me being politically incorrect mental midgets?

Enlighten me.

Because I feel like the rights I have grown up with my entire life are being trampled upon and eroded away.

Everyone can practice whatever faith they want...or choose not to in this country.

This country was founded on the Judeo - Christian ethics. Isn't our court system based on the same?

Separation of church and state... is not found anywhere in the constitution. Anyone can research America's Founding Fathers and the historical documents prove Christianity's influence on our country.

And now a minority of people come along and want to eradicate our heritage and the principles our country was founded upon. Our system is flawed... but it is still the greatest in the world. If not...then why have so many of the "huddled masses" immigrated here?

And for those of us who were raised with these values... if the secular movement to eradicate God from the role he has been given in this great nation is successful...and everything is sanitized and devoid of any public reference to God... then are we to believe it never happened... that it was a dream and we imagined the foundations we grew up with? We should deny our heritage because we risk offending another not of the same persuasion?

And if the secular movement is successful..what's next? At some point does the government become like the dictator regimes and rule God out of our homes too?

Where does it end?

I do apologize if I have offended anyone. Not my intention. Taking a stand and sincerely questioning the rationality of it all.